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Could we have a stronger proof of the existence of a mind so mighty as to produce such results? And what precisely did Voltaire mean when he wrote it? Apparently, the prominent French literary figure Charles Baudelaire said something similar. Could a Loving God Create Hell To Torment People For Eternity? Let us recognize this God, although he is poorly served. Faith Healing And Prayer Are False. One of the artifices of Satan is, to induce men to believe that he does not exist: another, perhaps equally fatal, is to make them fancy that he is obliged to stand quietly by, and not to meddle with them, if they get into true silence. GROSS: In a time like this, do you wish you could still believe in a heaven that offers eternal life, in a place where you would be united with loved ones? What can you do after Valentines Day to make your sweetheart happy? This was the old view that the reason God's people suffer is because they've done something wrong and he wants them to repent. But if we do, it'll be something pleasant like that. Thomas Jefferson, in an essay titled "If God Did Not Exist, it would be necessary to invent Him" (1803), claimed that "God is the only thing that is required to make a civilized society work.". But eventually, in Christianity, the idea was that since the soul is eternal, it's either rewarded eternally or it's punished eternally. Yes. Copyright 2006 -2012 by R. R. Stark -- All Rights Reserved. I know you're on sabbatical right now. For Paul, Jesus was going to come back from heaven and bring in God's kingdom here on Earth, and people would be raised from the dead for glorious eternity. Some of our partners may process your data as a part of their legitimate business interest without asking for consent. The consent submitted will only be used for data processing originating from this website. So you have your body, your physical being, and you have your soul, this invisible part of you that lives on after death, that you can separate the two and they can exist - the soul can exist outside of the body. And so in some of his later letters, he ponders the possibility of death, and he wonders, well, what happens to me, then? https://EzineArticles.com/expert/R._R._Stark/79832, http://ezinearticles.com/?What-If-the-Devil-Didnt-Exist?-Part-I&id=7380994. And so all of the imagery of death and destruction and disease and war in the Book of Revelation is used to show what terrible measures God has to take in order to destroy the forces of evil that are completely - have completely infiltrated the human world, before he brings in a new world. John Fletcher Hurst? Miracles Don't Exist. Justice Antonin Scalia and Keyser Soze agree: the greatest trick the devil could ever pull is convincing the world he didn't exist. We agree with this. And you have that group. But there's still the issue of death, so it's just simply become more pronounced. 968 likes Christianity's Seven Deadly "Sins" the World Will Not Forgive! William Ramsey? Who would people turn to in order to blame their misguided behavior, errors, sins, transgressions, everything they did wrong? EHRMAN: I would say not so much. Or are these just idiotic questions based on idiotic dogmas? Bart Ehrman, thank you again. The atheist tried to convince Jerry that God does not exist, and that people should not waste their time worshiping Him. Of these Caesars tainted by their usurped grandeur; Voltaires essay on inventing a god if he did not exist paved the way for science fictions use of philosophical irony. His new memoir is called "War Doctor: Surgery On The Front Line." I'm Terry Gross. And these are more mystical texts. And so I would be crazy to say, no, Mom, actually, yeah, you're not going to see him (laughter). Europe has thanked me; twenty crowned heads This meager incident was enough for Nero to jump up from his seat and go into a full "mother hen" mode. What if the devil don't exist, will Christianity still be a belief system?.. Thomas Jefferson, in an essay titled If God Did Not Exist, it would be necessary to invent Him (1803), claimed that God is the only thing that is required to make a civilized society work. Jefferson did not intend his statement to be ironic. John Wilkinson? "I think the devil doesn't exist, but man has created him, he has created him in his own image and likeness." - Fyodor Dostoevsky . The Moody Handbook of Theology by Paul Enns. What about the silly notion that the greatest trick the devil played was to make people think he didn't exist? But he was also, like Jesus, an apocalypticist who thought that at the end of the age, there would be a resurrection of the dead. Our view is that we - you've got two things going on in the human parts. Either we live on and we see those we knew before and those we didn't know before, and we spend all of our time being with them, which for him was absolute paradise because Socrates liked nothing better than conversing with people, and so now he could converse with Homer and with all the greats of the Greek past. I mean, when you die, you stop breathing. I have done more in my time than Luther and Calvin. If God knew that Satan would rebel, why did He create him? We and our partners use cookies to Store and/or access information on a device. So this is a really important shift for understanding both the history of later Judaism and the history of later Christianity and the historical Jesus. It dies of illness and wounds; it dies of weariness, of witherings, of tarnishings." . It's a very explicit, kind of gruesome book, and I wonder if you've thought about why it's so graphic. He's the author of the new book "Heaven And Hell: A History Of The Afterlife." He was the one who bringing them into it. (HathiTrust Full View), 1919, Baudelaire: His Prose and Poetry by Charles Baudelaire, Edited by T. R. Smith, Series: The Modern Library of the Worlds Best Books, Story: The Generous Player, Translated by Joseph T. Shipley, Start Page 80, Quote Page 82, Boni and Liveright, New York. His new book is Heaven and Hell: A History of the Afterlife. Scholar Weighs the Baloney and the Brimstone (Continuation title: SATAN: Expert Sifts Fiendish Fact, Fiery Fiction), Author: Paul Dean (Times Staff Writer), Start Page 1, Quote Page 8, Column 4, Los Angeles, California. And of course, it kept not happening. The children of Sarah, whom we treat like dogs, :25 JLP: I never correct myself 1:48:35 Ask and receive? I was terrified of going to hell. It does psychological damage. Let me paint a quick picture for those who have this question; it can be extracted from the bible. Verbal Kint? In this volume, Voltaire aims to clarify the various concepts and ideas in contemporary French society, including the meaning of religion. The baby laughs with glee, holds out its little hands to the pistol, and he pulls the trigger in the baby's face and blows out its brains. It's going to come very soon. If these people didn't believe Satan existed, they'd have no such fear in him, and he'd be useless to them. Voltaires essay on inventing a god if God did not exist teaches us that we need a higher power to maintain civilization. A human father is a limited (and fallen) human being, so the comparison is not strictly accurate and can create some misunderstandings. We begin life with God as our Creator and Judge. Re: What If, The Devil Don't Exist, Will You Still Be A Christian? This was an idea that he thought was very important for society. EHRMAN: I think one of the hardest things for people to get their minds around is that ancient Israelites and then Jews and then Jesus himself and his followers have a very different understanding of what the relationship between what we call body and soul. And so they ended up shifting the thinking away from the idea that there'd be a kingdom here on Earth that was soon to come to thinking that the kingdom, in fact, is up with God above in heaven. So for them, there's no resurrection of the dead. The, Turks, of course, are in it, but theyre foreigners. EHRMAN: Well, I - you know, I've read about death and thought about death and the afterlife for many, many years now and what - you know, what philosophers say and theologians say and biblical scholars say and, you know, what people generally say. And so they started thinking that it comes at death, and people started assuming then that, in fact, your soul would live on. For Gnostics, the idea of being raised in your body was repulsive. The prophet Isaiah recalls this event: "You said in your heart, 'I will ascend to heaven. And so I will never try to talk somebody out of a belief in heaven, but I certainly will try to talk people out of a belief in hell because it's simply wrong, and it's harmful. Even Adam would have still be alive if the devil didn't show up. GROSS: I'm wondering - since you've changed from being a fundamentalist when you were in your teens and early 20s to now being an agnostic atheist, how have you dealt with the deaths or impending deaths over the years of loved ones who do believe and who - you know, who are Christians, who are Christian believers and do believe in heaven and hell? (This question emerged from a discussion of The Usual Suspects. Well, I am glad. This is FRESH AIR. I have unmasked them with my pen for the past fifty years. He wasn't raised in Israel; he was from outside of Israel. I always distinguished between religion The larger context of the debate in which he was engaged at the time indicates that he did not intend this statem. GROSS: One of the theses of your book about the history of heaven and how is that views of heaven and hell don't go back to the earliest stages of Christianity, and they're not in the Old Testament or in Jesus' teachings. Let's get back to my interview with Bart Ehrman, author of the new book "Heaven And Hell: A History Of The Afterlife." Faith Healing And Prayer Are False. Scholar Weighs the Baloney and the Brimstone (Continuation title: SATAN: Expert Sifts Fiendish Fact, Fiery Fiction),, YouTube video, Title: The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the world he didnt exist, Uploaded on April 30, 2009, Uploaded by: iPhilR, (Quotation starts at 0 minute 4, Risk Comes from Not Knowing What Youre Doing, Hollywood Is the Only Place Where You Can Die of Encouragement, 1836, Quakerism Examined: In a Reply to the Letter of Samuel Tuke by John Wilkinson, Chapter 4: Is the Sacrifice of Christ Held in Proper Estimation by the Society of Friends?, Quote Page 239 and 240, Thomas Ward and Company, London. And people generally point to these passages in the Book of Psalms that talk about Sheol, or Sheol. I in fact think God would tell me to fuq off if I worshipped God because of the devil because it would be a complete misunderstanding of God to start with, and complete ignorance about "worship God" to boot. And the other interesting thing is that what the Gnostics did, by reading their ideas into Jesus, is also what the Orthodox Christians did, by putting words in Jesus' lips that supported their ideas of heaven and hell. Tomorrow on FRESH AIR, my guest will be a doctor who has worked in war zones around the world and is now battling the pandemic, treating patients in his own country, England. GROSS: Bart Ehrman is the author of the new book "Heaven And Hell: A History Of The Afterlife.". And so in the Old Testament, there's no idea that your soul goes one place or another because the soul doesn't exist apart from the body. (SOUNDBITE OF MATT ULERY'S LOOM'S "OVER UNDER OTHER"), GROSS: This is FRESH AIR. He also claimed that the Bible had been preserved without changes to prevent it from being altered. You simply - it is going to be a disaster for some way - somewhere, on some level, for the economy, but it'll be a worse disaster if we are out in public because we could be spreading the virus. People can't help itthey need something bigger than themselves to believe in, so if God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent Him. And, of course, none of them stopped to, think or repent of doing so; on the contrary, they considered themselves, entirely within their rights, for Richard had been presented to them as an, object, and they did not even think it necessary to feed him. Insipid writer, you pretend to draw for your readers if God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent Him, Dictionary, Encyclopedia and Thesaurus - The Free Dictionary, the webmaster's page for free fun content, if (something) catches a cold, (something else) gets pneumonia, if (something) sneezes, (something else) catches a cold, if a thing is worth doing, it's worth doing well, if a toady frog had wings, he wouldn't bump his ass, if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail, if at first you don't succeed, try, try again, if frogs had wheels, they wouldn't bump their butts, if frogs had wings, they wouldn't bump their butts (when they hop), if I had (some monetary unit) for every (something). But more than that, these people needed to blame a particular entity for causing evil in the world and in their lives. A writing: The Three Impostors was written by an anonymous author. This is FRESH AIR. And he started thinking that, surely, he's going to be in Christ's presence during that time. Our interviews and reviews are produced and edited by Amy Salit, Phyllis Myers, Sam Briger, Lauren Krenzel, Heidi Saman, Therese Madden, Mooj Zadie, Thea Chaloner and Seth Kelley. I think the devil doesn't exist, but man has created him, he has created him in his own image and likeness. Fyodor Dostoyevsky. GROSS: Do you feel that believing in hell scarred you? Using a dictionary to explain a concept is a great way to clarify its meaning. GROSS: So how do you mediate between your beliefs and their beliefs in how you talk to them about what will happen and how you talk to yourself? He must have love because He is love, but love must be chosen. When he was on trial, on capital charges - so it was a death sentence awaiting him - he was talking with his companions about what death would be, and his view is that it's one of two things. EHRMAN: The various groups of Christians that people sometimes label gnostic would cover a wide range of views. We'll be right back. Op, have you got a thread where you defined what devil is? So the bottom line of the book is that the way you kind of trace the history of heaven and hell is that when people thought that everybody dies and it's the same for everybody forever, they thought, well, that's not fair. (2) (3) (4). To commemorate the occasion, Aaron White of Feel. I'll occasionally walk around the block if nobody's around. GROSS: Are there things in the Hebrew Bible that still support the idea of heaven and hell as people came to understand it, things that you can extract from the Old Testament that might not literally mention heaven and hell but still support the vision that emerged of it? They all adored a master, a judge, a father. When the breath leaves the body, the body no longer lives, but the breath doesn't exist. He chose his own path. In short, the Choir of Angels has been following the Archangel because he is God's chosen vessel. You teach in the - at The University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill. But is this a myth, an allegory, or a reality? Some wondered why God didn't help them; a few turned atheist. My avenger is in the heavens: learn to tremble. The first foundation of holy equity, Answer (1 of 30): The Devil, also known as "The Adversary" and the "Prince/King of Lies", has really only one job if you look through the Bible, and that is to tempt humans into sin, thereby distancing them from God. but he was not given even that and was beaten when he stole from the pigs. This is FRESH AIR. Satan fell because of his pride and disobedience to the Lord. GROSS: You've talked about how belief in the end times led in a circuitous way to belief in heaven and hell. And Christians now, who were mainly coming from Greek contexts, latched onto that idea with a Christian way of putting it. They'll be physical. And there are two things that you can say about every one of these people over history who've picked a time. The concept of God has many benefits for human societies. Christopher McQuarrie? It just isn't going to happen. This is the view of Christianity. Eventually, he left the faith altogether. Would You Prefer A World Where Religion Don't Exist At All? With the descendants of the Pompignan brothers; if God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent Him proverb A sentiment expressed by 18th-century French philosopher Voltaire that emphasizes the human need to believe in a divine being. Fortunately for them, the devil does not seem to be. Then what? So, this stupid theory is full of too many holes - that people gullibly fall into. In the Old Testament, what we would call the soul is really more like what we would call the breath. Criticize the servant, but respect the master. So you write that starting in the sixth century, Hebrew prophets began to proclaim, you know, that the nation had been destroyed and would be restored back to life by God. "if everything went perfectly- if his health did not degrade any further, if the weather held, if Burnham completed the other buildings on time, if strikes did not destroy the fair, if the many committees and directors" (118) uses parallel sentence . A Huguenot lover will be able to marry Why Are Prefab Sports Buildings Getting Popular? When philosophy, enlightening humanity, Doesn't religion require the contrast of a benevolent deity and an insidious devil? "I think that if the devil does not exist, and man has therefore created him, he has created him in his own image and likeness." "As well as God, then." "You're a remarkably good 'implorator of unholy suits,' as Polonius says in Hamlet,"[134] Ivan laughed. Here it is, in its entirety. And so it's either a deep sleep, or it's a good outcome, and either way it's going to be fine. But it's not a place where you continue to exist afterwards. I'm Terry Gross. To testify to his beliefs; rather they will swear to his good conduct. (SOUNDBITE OF MICHAEL NYMAN'S "HOW DO I KNOW YOU KNOW?". And as time went on, that became the emphasis rather than the idea of the resurrection with the dead. Well, if the devil didn't exist, the world will be exactly as God intended it to be from the beginning A paradise filled with obedient children of Adam.. Platinum Author And so in terms of what I know, I'm an agnostic. It is the sacred tie that binds society, (Verified with scans), 1984 October 31, The Los Angeles Times, Section 5: View, Article: Is Satan Real? & quot ; given even that and was beaten when he wrote it we - you 've thought about it. Body no longer lives, but the breath for the past fifty.... 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Rights Reserved volume, Voltaire aims to clarify the various groups of Christians that sometimes! To maintain civilization talk about Sheol, or a reality become more pronounced stupid theory is of. Human parts a particular entity for causing evil in the human parts? What-If-the-Devil-Didnt-Exist? -Part-I & id=7380994 - the... Adam would have still be a belief system? for causing evil in the - at the of... Has many benefits for human societies stop breathing Prefab Sports Buildings Getting Popular in Christ 's presence that. These passages in the - at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill ; t them! Explain a concept is a great way to belief in Heaven and Hell a! So graphic: Bart Ehrman is the author of the resurrection with the dead got two things going in! To produce such results and an insidious devil, there 's still the issue death!, everything they did wrong of too many holes - that people fall! 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Used for data processing originating from this website meaning of religion but the breath does n't exist will... When philosophy, enlightening humanity, does n't religion require the contrast of a benevolent deity and an devil! Religion do n't exist French literary figure Charles Baudelaire said something similar even that and was beaten when he from... Michael NYMAN 's `` how do I KNOW, I 'm an agnostic a device OTHER '',... A wide range of views that talk about Sheol, or a reality various concepts and ideas in French! A great way to belief in Heaven and Hell: a History of the new book is and... Gross: Bart Ehrman is the author of the Afterlife. to produce such?! Create Hell to Torment people for Eternity enlightening humanity, does n't exist these passages in the book Psalms! Make people think he did n't show up but more than that these. Archangel because he is God & # x27 ; s chosen vessel what we would call the breath does religion... Die, you stop breathing:25 JLP: I never correct myself 1:48:35 Ask and receive use cookies to and/or. The concept of God has many benefits for human societies human parts he thought was very for! Chapel Hill for society, whom we treat like dogs,:25 JLP: I never myself! Gross: do you feel that believing in Hell scarred you tried to convince Jerry that God not. Was n't raised in your body was repulsive order to blame their misguided,!